St Martins Walk - Again...
Now that the Officers Club has closed the lower end of St Martins Walk is looking worse than ever.
There are it is now empty right down to Fun and Games which is located on the lower square. In that relatively small space we previously had The Officers Club, Baby Boom, Oxygen, The Fairy Kingdom, whilst not the most inspiring selection (Oxygen excluded) at least they were occupied.
Apart from perhaps the Officers Club this situation isn't really caused by the current downturn. These empty shop units are in addition to the many others which have remained empty in the centre throughout the boom of recent years.
posted by The Cockerel @ 8:20 PM
20 Comments:
Absolutely correct. 20 years ago other local towns such as Reigate, Redhill and even Leatherhead (bless it, I got my first job there!) were Dorking's poor relations, now the boot is firmly on the other foot.
There are numerous reasons, in my opinion, for this situation. Dorking has suffered a massive loss of shoppers to surrounding towns because of the lack of significant 'built for purpose' stores. For example, when we did get a Marks & Spencers where was it located? That's right, in the basement of a small shopping mall totally hidden away from the High Street and any passing traffic that may have been considering stopping there - brilliant.
No shoppers mean there is no reason for large stores to come to Dorking, in the present climate, especially when they know they are likely to get a hostile reception from MVDC and a small group of very vocal locals who still believe Dorking is a quaint market town. It's a very nice town but quaint it's not. If you want just one example of hostile reception take the Sainsbury proposal: it wasn't perfect by any means, but it's one hell of a way to treat one of the town's oldest retailers.
The declining number of shoppers also means the pressure is well and truly on the small independents and that's why, one by one, you will see an increasing number of failures.
I have lived in or around the town for long enough to collect a bus pass and I have never seen Dorking in such a desparate state.
Dorking, and especially MVDC, needs a total rethink of their approach to planning matters in relation to the town's retail environment. Can you imagine the howls of protest if, for example, Aldi or Lidle wanted to open in the town? The blue rinse (and wanabe blue rinse)brigade would be mobilised in a trice.
It's all very distressing. And to add to it MVDC want to charge a declining number of shoppers even more to park their cars and visit a declining number of shops,
Pepin
Yes Pepin, nothing to argue with there. When will Dorking SOS etc. get their collective head out of the sand (Greensand to be precise) and understand that modern retail patterns mean that a large anchor store is essential to attract the numbers which small, independents can't on their own. MVDC planners should have been entrusted to integrate the necessary development attractively and still could/must be given the task if we're to avoid ghost town status. Living 5mins walk from St Martin's I'm just about to do my main shop in Sainsbury's....Leatherhead.
Have to question the 'passing traffic' argument sometimes raised on here: the number of shoppers from that source must be minimal, any through-traffic uses the by-passes. M&S is used by those who are well aware where it is, with parking close-by.
Re the planning 'total rethink' mentioned; no apologies for repeating that something dramatic but entirely in keeping with the town is needed. It can be found on 'Dorking needs a heart'..dorkingabout.com.
Stop press! Saffron in administration.
Dougie
At least the Marks and Spencer in Dorking has survived this round of planned closures. The M&S in the Woking's Peacock shopping centre and in Croydon's Valley Retail are going to close plus 25 of its small Simply Food stores. St. Martin's Walk is a very depressing place to shop and now it is just downright bleak. And, as I have just read Dougie's post above that Saffron has gone into adminstration. So, that is another two shops which are also going to sit empty in this joke of a shopping centre. Ralph Rice - hang your head in shame and it is about time that you got your marching orders ie. your P45!!! Jo
'Hang you heads in shame' that should be directed not to RR but to the managing agents - NB Real Estates and JSainsbury who are forcing tennants out, not reducing rents and service charges and not promoting the empty units, to other retailers at rents levels that would attract tennants. They are responsible for the mess down there. Somebody from the council (planning?)has to hold them to account. It is unacceptable. Hang your heads in shame JSainsbury..one of the oldest retailers in town ...and one of the most destructive!
I was talking to someone who told me that saffron would have considered closing one of their two units. However rather than have one unit rented the landlords have now seen both units unoccupied. Not great business sense or deliberately forcing them out? Makes you think eh?
I must confess that it's doubtful that Sainsburys represent anyone other their own and their shareholders interests, but it is in their interest to have a profitable investment at St Martin's so there can be little reason to try and force people out. If they did go down this route their investment will receive no income and they will still have to pay business rates on empty premises - and MVDC doesn't get a penny of these rates.
There is certainly a group in Dorking who hate Sainsburys, I don't know why because at least they didn't desert the town as Tesco did...by the way I don't work for the company, I don't hold shares in the company and I don't even know anyone who does work there.
I add that just in case someone thinks I have an ulterior motive.
Pepin
Pepin you are missing the point. JS are not interested in St. Martins Walk as an investment. This is on pin money to them what they lose on rental income. What they want is the destruction of the shopping centre in order to put in a vast and highly profitable supermarket. By destroying St. Martins Walk they will win public opinion into the establishment of a supermarket "its so awful down there so why not put a supermarket"(ignorant public opinion as they have in actual fact facilited its destruction themselves). That is why JS are the most destructive retailer in town.
but why not? if the public are caught up in the dark ages and will block modernisation then, if they have the power force them into the 21st century. That's the trouble with dorking too many people are stuck in their wellies!!
Anyhow don't believe everything you hear as Cockrel pointed out quite rightly if thornfield are forcing saffron into a corner why don't they relocate?
It boils down to whether one wants a new supermarket in town or not. I personally have no objestion, but not on top of St. Martins Walk. This shopping centre if handled rightly and modified down the bottom IS an asset to the town. JSainsbury will, I think prevail on this issue and get their way.
I am afraid I am not missing the point, no matter how large a company is it can't afford to have investments in its portfolio that are providing zero return - and that is precisely why Sainsbury would rather see rents being paid to them. At the moment St Martin's Walk is fast approaching the zero returns stage.
The days have long gone when companies could afford to have idle assets and use them as a long term bagaining chips to force through planning approvals.
Unfortunately the various plans this company has put forward for an edge of town development were all squashed and they were told to look for a town centre site which is exactly what they did. The rest is history because this, again, was squashed. Dorking's planners have an awful lot to answer for... and so too do a number of residents who like to wear a badg that says "I'm here to save Dorking".
Pepin
So if there is no truth in sainsburys squeezing out tennants why does SMW look the way it does? by the way i vote pepin for mayor.
I agree, time to let Sainsburys in. Even if it does mean losing St. Martins walk altogether - I only ever go through there to get to the car park or M&S, like most people I expect. We really really need something big to get the town moving again and attract people in.
Pepin, you can't be right on it being 'unfortunate' that Sainsbury's plans for an edge of town store were squashed; that would have been a disaster for the town centre's viability in many ways. (What good does Tesco's, where it is, do for Leatherhead town centre? It drains people away)
Hopefully realism will prevail with the vociferous minority who wish to block a town centre store emerging from their stupor. Having said that, the balance has to be created, with the size of store and range of goods being akin to Leatherhead Sainsbury's...no bigger....so that small shops aren't threatened, but are very much helped to survive with the increased footfall created.
It is not beyond the wit of the planners and architects to produce an admirable answer on the originally intended site; including to the related access issues as well.
Well Ceebie, of course you're right to a degree regarding Tesco in Leatherhead, except there's edge of town such as Deepdene roundabout (now full of quite pleasing little brick boxes that bring not one jot of value to the town) and edge of town such as Leatherhead's Tesco which is practically in Oxshot. But then our wise planners for some reason best known to themselves decided to allow a Sainsburys, about three time bigger than Dorking's branch, slap bang in the middle of Leatherhead with a multi storey car cark on its roof -that's why you see Next, Dorothy Perkins, Toni & Guy (not much use to me I must admit) right there in the middle of town helping to suck in an excellent array of independent retailers.
I agree, it should not be beyond the wit of architects and planners to come together and solve any problems. The question of access to the St Martin's site has always puzzled me: by comparison with Lyons Court, Dene Street and Chart Lane (used by Sainsburys) and Junction Road/West Street (used by Waitrose) Mill Lane is a giant of a road already used by Marks & Spencers and the driver of every single vehicle using the St Martin's car park. If ever there was dreamt-up excuse access problems is it.
Pepin
Spot on Pepin with the rest of your comment, but the Deepdene roundabout site can be regarded as 'out of town' being on the by-pass and precisely because people shopping there would not have walked nor driven into the centre to support shops there.
Who, anyway, would want to have denied those moving into the 'little brick boxes' the opportunity to look out on our delightful symbolic cockerel?! (Not to be misconstrued...it's great!)
Ceebie, I agree I also like the cockerel!
I see Saffron in St Martin's Walk went even quicker than was suggested - this morning the shop is totally empty, devoid of stock and locked.
Pepin
Sadly supermarkets are the USA of the retail world; they get what they want. There will without a doubt be a sainsburys in st martins walk within a few years. Directors and shareholders don't care about little towns and their individuality, they want money and wont be happy until they have destroyed all of the independant traders and have us all on their payroll as faceless drones working in their stores and spending our money in their stores.
You can guarantee that their argument for the new store will be about all the job prospects and passing trade yet they will sell everything you could possibly need instore for cheaper. There will I imagine even be a coffee shop and opticians.
We must all hope that you're right Anonymous (yet another one) that Sainsbury's will be established in StMW in a few years time; let's hope too the town can wait that long for the crucial shot in the arm - absolutely not in the head, as you suggest.
Of course you're right that the what-can-be-overweening greed of supermarket chains has to be controlled; I'm not sure if town councils (especially of small towns) have the powers required to limit size of store and range of goods - if not they should be given them. As said elsewhere re Sainsbury's - L'head size/range should be the max.. They'll still make the profits they reckon to need whilst making the essential contribution to the viability of the whole retail set up. How sad that opposition was integral to creating the sad Dorking retail state, even before world events created more enormous difficulties.
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